Impressions & Feelings Retrospective

Impressions & Feelings Retrospective

Postby bobbymac » Mon Jan 02, 2012 4:17 pm

Steven, would you be so kind as to comment on this article you wrote before you modified your definition of feelings to include impressions?

http://theemergencesite.com/QandA/QA070 ... sation.htm

On page 88 of Book I you make a diagram which helps describe how I first took thoughts and feelings, before your books. Complementary opposites. But in this diagram I would have called Ideas thoughts and Stories feelings. And I would have superimposed the mind-body clock (up-down our spines) behind these diagrams.

I think it would be great to hear what you see now. Because those questions you posed in the article are fantastic.

Bobby
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Re: Impressions & Feelings Retrospective

Postby stevent10993 » Tue Jan 03, 2012 10:18 pm

Bobby, I partially address this dilemma about word choices in Book I, pg. 194. And to be honest, were you to read the philosopher David Hume, you'd find he too used these same two words; thoughts and impressions, to divide the visible/physical from the invisible/mental.

Know when it came to choosing my words, his choice influenced me alot. I wanted to continue to use the word feelings as the opposite of the word thoughts. Indeed, I agree with you that the article you refer on my site does make more sense to most people when it comes to describing mind body differences. Ostensibly, thoughts are the experiences of the mind and feelings the experiences of the body.

But when it comes to logical geometry, those two words fail to manifest clear truths. What are feelings in the usual sense? Emotions? Physical pain? Psychic impressions? Hunches? Certainly they are not just something we sense in the body. Thus they can't just refer to something physical. We also use this word to refer to mental things. Likewise, were I to use ideas as the sum of the mind's experience, what would emotions be, just another kind of idea?

In truth, without the logical geometry which underlies every single word in the map, words like thoughts, feelings, impressions, and ideas cannot be clearly defined. At best, we can only define them loosely. And for me, it helps to remember the succession of five steps which underlie every map. [1] a pair of crossed continuums, [2] two questions which define these two crossed continuums. [3] four answers which define the poles of these two crossed continuums, [4] four truths derives from combining adjacent answers, and [5] four states of truth which derive from combining adjacent truths.

To wit, feelings plus ideas equal thoughts; the state of mental truth; the mind's truth. Whereas stories plus facts equal impressions; the state of physical truth; the body's truth. Then ideas plus facts equal the state of theoretical truth; the ideal, scientific, beautifully complete, whole truths. Whereas feelings plus stories equal the state of real world truth; the practical, flesh and blood, pragmatic, living truths.

Looked at in this way, my earlier article still makes sense. However, were I to try to amend every prior instance of thoughts/feelings on my site, I'd spend the better part of several years just trying to be consistent.

In the end, the best way to see this change is to see it as an upgrade. Every word in the map is part of an integrated logical geometry. Here there are always two crossed continuums, two questions, four answers, four truths, and four states of truth. And every map must be constructed with this level of strict, logical geometry. Otherwise, we lose the elegance of these truths. And while we'll still use the words thoughts and feelings in our everyday life, when it comes to personal truth, we deserve a higher lever of science and logic. We deserve truths based on geometrically logical perfection.

Besides, your mind and body are still the same as they were before. The adjust is only a linguistic upgrade.

BTW, thanks for the question. I hadn't read that article in years. It was a nice surprise to find it still readable. And being as I've felt dead in the water for the past four months with regard to writing, it's nice to remember how important it is.
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Re: Impressions & Feelings Retrospective

Postby bobbymac » Fri Jan 06, 2012 7:16 pm

Thank you and you're welcome. I see what you mean about the vagueness of the word "feelings" as we refer to so many things.

Back when I first started learning your theory I tried to do a map of my own with thoughts and feelings. I admit, although using the two concepts covered a lot of ground in conversation, when I drew the map, with a body shown from the side and labeled the top "thoughts" and the bottom "feelings", I hit a wall. The only way I could account for what I was experiencing was to include the concepts "internal" and "external".

I remember the idea at the time was "are there two kinds of thoughts?". I had to drop it and simply continue with cycle of threes.

Even then, those two ideas "internal" and "external" hadn't quite revealed themselves as visible and invisible but that would come during a songwriting course I took online. Then when I saw the map you made, though I was frustrated at the swapping of words, it did reconcile what I had tried to draw from the start.

Question: When you say thoughts and feelings, up and down the spine, are you really referring to ideas and feelings? Or thoughts and impressions?

My experience says slower sampling is feelings. And a slower sampling is stories. When my mind races I only see fixed flashes of images (fact) and I'm definitely getting more ideas when it's a faster rate. So I would say you are, in this article, mainly focusing on the invisible realms of ideas and feelings. Up and down the spine.
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Re: Impressions & Feelings Retrospective

Postby stevent10993 » Sat Jan 07, 2012 12:28 pm

The simple truth is, in order to truly sense facts and stories, you must go slow. Both are physical world truths. You can't hurry a story, or rush to gather a fact, and be certain you've got it. Whereas ideas and feelings are both capable of being fully sensed in the blink of an eye, sometimes less. Think falling in love. Think finding the right lyric. Think the experience of knowing you've lost.

Admittedly, the fact that my article uses the word "feelings" in the vernacular and my later theories use this same word in a technical sense does make it hard to mentally reconcile. After all, we still use the word feelings all the time to mean emotions. So in truth, I had no easy way to know which words to choose for the states of truth I call mental truth (thoughts) and physical truth (impressions). So I chose to build on what Hume had proposed.

Finally, I would guess that what you're trying to reconcile is the way these words seem to change the meaning of being "body first." Here the difference is simply a matter of personal preference with regard to how quickly or slowly you like to process life. That you can feel this difference does not imply that body first people feel more. Rather body first people often perceive feelings more because they process them more slowly. This said, the awareness of feelings still originates in the mind, not in the body, even when the feelings being perceived are body feelings. And if you doubt this, simply notice the feelings you're experiencing right now as your butt sits on your seat. Now notice where that awareness originated.

These origin points are the same for all people, whether mind first or body first.

I hope this helps.

Steve
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Re: Impressions & Feelings Retrospective

Postby bobbymac » Sat Jan 07, 2012 4:59 pm

Right. Mind-Body speedometer. Facts + Stories = Body = Impressions = Slower. Thanks for sorting that out.

BTW, I really connect with your section on how unnatural it is for me to be asked what I think, being body first. I go blank whenever someone asks me that. Blamed myself so far as to consider myself anti-social and stupid.

But now when I do "tell them what I think", I've learned I have to back up (I need space, chair get out of the way) and I need room to act it all out. Waving hands, pointing at things that aren't there, making the outline of images, even sound effects. Then the words come. It's a fantastic feeling, now that I know how to express.

If I don't have room for that in a conversation, and I speak, it's pretty lifeless.

Reminds me of my favorite actor Robert Redford in Legal Eagles. "And I pace! I need room to pace!"
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Re: Impressions & Feelings Retrospective

Postby stevent10993 » Sat Jan 07, 2012 6:49 pm

Know this pacing is not limited to body first people. I pace when I teach to the point that my camera man goes crazy trying to keep the close shot of me in focus. Also, I have a body first counter preference when it comes to music and dance. So I must move when I sing and write music or else, I am totally blank.

Makes you think about you and music, doesn't it. No wonder you like it. You are free to move.
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